The Pioneers Revisited: An Interview with Paolo Presi
by Anabela Cardoso
Originally published in the April 2007
Anabela: Paolo, you are a well-known international ITC researcher who has been in the field for many years. When did your interest in ITC start? What prompted you to dedicate so many years of your life to the study of these phenomena? Was there a specific factor or event that triggered your interest? If so, can you tell us what it was please?
Paolo: I have been involved in ITC since 1973 when I first heard of the possibility of communicating with other dimensions through the use of technical media. At that time I believed that such phenomenon did not need human mediumship [intermediation] since it appeared to be transmitted by means of a technical device such as a tape recorder. Since the young age of fourteen, I have been deeply fascinated by so-called parapsychological phenomena. At that time, I believed that all psychic phenomena had its origins in the human mind. When I learned of the possibility of communicating through ITC with another world where all humans are supposed to go after their death, such information literally prompted me into a deep investigation of the subject. At the same time, the possibility of experimenting by myself gave me the opportunity to verify what Friedrich Jürgenson claimed.
Anabela: Did you experiment with EVP yourself? If so, please give us a brief account of your most significant results. How did you feel about what happened, what were your emotions and thoughts about those anomalous events, if they occurred during your own experiments?
Paolo: Yes, I experimented by myself for the next four years. I received the first voice in 1975 after a lot of unsuccessful experiments. This happened after a visit to Marcello Bacci in Grosseto. It was astonishing when I verified that the voices were able to reply coherently to my questions. After this first verification of the real existence of EVP, I mainly devoted myself to investigating the phenomenon produced by other experimenters in order to understand the process involved. One of my initial goals was to identify the constants and variables that characterize the phenomenon. This preliminary research allowed me to conclude that the real key to the phenomenon was not the technical devices used in the experimental sessions but the experimenter him or herself. Today, I think that the information, coded in words, comes to us only through the person, although not from the person only.
Anabela: I know that you have met some of the most remarkable ITC researchers of the past including the great pioneer Friedrich Jürgenson. Can you describe for us how your encounter with Jürgenson happened and what impression he made on you?
Paolo: I met Friedrich Jürgenson at a Recanati Conference in 1977. Going back to the memories of that time, I remember that I was very much touched by his rich and powerful personality. Everything about him conveyed an impression of spirituality. His presentation at the Conference was very impressive for me because I understood from it that his life was totally dedicated to the spreading of his comforting message of survival to parents who had lost their children.
Anabela: What other outstanding researchers did you meet in those far off years of the 1970s? Please share with us your feelings and the impact each one of them had on you.
Paolo: In the same Recanati Conference, I met Eng. Theodor Rudolph from Ulm (Germany). He was an Electronics Engineer specializing in high frequencies and laser techniques at the Telefunken Laboratories. He was also a close collaborator of Dr. Konstantin Raudive, and manufactured for him the so-called Goniometer. He was the first to investigate EVP from a physical/technical point of view, and interpreted the unshielded energy involved in EVP as energy similar to gravitational energy. On the same occasion I also met Dr. Franz Seidi from Wien, a pioneer researcher in Europe who designed, manufactured and experimented with the so-called Psychophone.
In 1979 at the Fermo Conference, I met a very special scientist: Burkhard Heim from Northeim (German). At that time he was the director of the Institute of Field Physics and was devoting a large portion of his life to the pursuit of his unified field theory well known as “Heim’s Theory.” During a wonderful conversation on EVP he said to me: “Remember, in any research you intend to do, you always have to take particular care of the spiritual aspect; do not forget that!” In his book, Postmortal States, on the theory of a six-dimensional reality, he demonstrated and mathematically supported the existence of the Beyond.
Anabela: What is your opinion of the developments that have taken place in the field of ITC research since those days? (1970s)
Paolo: This is a very interesting question. Frequently I ask myself what is the cause of the new developments that have taken place in Instrumental Transcommunication in the past three decades. In other words, why did such developments occur? Firstly it must be said that where the experiments have been carried out in accordance with certain physical models (as for example in the experiments with the Spiricom by George Meek and William O’Neil), sooner or later results have occurred consistent with these models. Secondly, it is well known that although many voices may be obtained by a dedicated researcher through a particular technical device, the same device fails to produce results for another experimenter. My conclusion is that the phenomenon is able to adapt itself to the psychic model preferred by the experimenter. This does not mean that the voices come from our unconscious, but that our minds are able to formulate a mental intention to communicate that conforms to the particular psychic model that we happen to hold. I think that this mental intention forms the “bridge” that the communicators have mentioned on several occasions. This bridge allows us to contact other planes of consciousness.
Anabela: We were recently together giving invited presentations at the 15th Anniversary Conference of Infinitude in Paris, and we both met a number of people who told us of their own results, some of which were very impressive; for example, apparently clear anomalous images and voices. I am sure many more, who did not manage to speak with us, also had interesting experiences to report. How do you explain what seems to be happening worldwide in this field. For instance, the spreading of communications apparently coming from another level of reality, and how do you expect this trend to develop in the future?
Paolo: Conferences such as the one organized by Infinitude are very useful for the researcher since they allow us to assess the evolution of the phenomenon. It is most important to speak with the people present at the conference since they are a precious source of information about their own experiences. On such occasions we have the opportunity to learn much more than in books and to survey the latest developments of the phenomena. I think that, if the new human psychic models contain strong expectations about the improvement of the contacts, such developments will occur sooner or later.
Anabela: Do you attribute these novel developments to some potential for such developments in the human mind, to the communicators themselves, or to the interaction between the two, for instance the interaction between the human psychic potential to receive them, and the desire and work of the communicators to make them happen? In other words, do you believe that the communicators really exist as a separate entity or do you think they are a creation of the human mind?
Paolo: It is necessary to clarify: what I mean by “psychic model.” Put simply, you have to liken the “psychic model” to the tuning dial (the quadrant in a radio set where the broadcasting stations are listed) of a radio. To tune a radio correctly to a certain broadcasting station (i.e. to the name of the station, to the wave band, to the frequency, etc) it is necessary to scan the tuning dial and stop the frequency pointer at the desired station. The same happens with our psyche: only if we mentally pre-establish as firmly and deeply as possible the way and the method in which we believe communications will take place, will these communications become feasible. In the case of tuning a radio, what comes through the loudspeaker does not depend on we who do the tuning, as the origin of the broadcast sounds comes from the transmitting station. Similarly, in the case of ITC, our desire to establish the contact and the belief that the contact is possible (our psychic model) is analogous to the act of tuning. Thus although this psychic model is a necessary part of the process, it does not in itself create the communications.
Anabela: If we continue to analyze the massive spread of ITC communications, we can rightly assume that there are at present many thousands of people who, in the quiet of their homes, experiment and perhaps obtain significant results. This was predicted by the communicators themselves many years ago, and it seems to me to be perhaps one of the best ways to establish the reality of the phenomena, in opposition to the attitude of the scientific community at large (there are naturally a very few honorable exceptions among scientists) that continues to ignore them. I would appreciate your comments on these two approaches: from one side the great interest of common people, and from the other the disdain of science toward the so far sole phenomenon in the field of survival research that is objective and repeatable and can be scientifically analyzed within the framework of the scientific method.
Paolo: As I said before, all the experiments carried out in the quiet of the experimenters’ homes are very useful since they can yield significant results and precious material for research. On the other hand, an intensive investigation by means of scientific methodologies and techniques is, today, absolutely indispensable. I can understand the behavior of today’s scientist on this issue because every paranormal event contradicts one or more of the well-established paradigms of science. In line with Thomas Kuhn’s thought, only by using scientific language and by demonstrating events that are presently considered anomalies will we alert the scientific community to the importance of this kind of research, and only then will a revision of the paradigms, currently considered immutable by science, take place.
Anabela: To conclude our pleasant conversation I would like to ask you to share with the readers of the ITC Journal your expectations for the future of this discipline, and how you anticipate it will develop.
Paolo: My main expectation is acceptance by science of the importance of all objective evidence such as ITC phenomena that support the possible existence of the other planes of consciousness where one day all of us will dwell.
Anabela: Very many thanks Paolo! The readers of the ITC Journal and myself greatly appreciate your sharing your experiences with us and taking part with me in this interesting exchange of views on the exciting field of Instrumental Transcommunication research.
Thomas S Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolution,: University of Chicago,1970
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